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e-Cigaretteforum.com  |  General Category  |  General Discussion (Moderator: Kellyinbr)  |  Topic: Eliquid approval « previous next »
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Topic: Eliquid approval  (Read 1585 times)
Kate
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« on: April 22, 2009, 02:41:59 PM »
Right to Vape has been discussing a scheme to check and approve eliquid for consumers.  The idea is similar to the approval process used by organisations such as The Vegetarian Society which checks ingredients using their own criteria and grants the use of their approval symbol for compliant foods.  http://www.seedlingshowcase.com/corporate08/product_accreditation.asp   Approval by the Veg Soc reassures consumers that the products meet the independent standards of a consumer organisation,   For an annual fee the producer gets independent testing and approval, the use of the 'approved' trademark on packaging and marketing materials, some product promotion by the society, links, inclusion in a product database and the general goodwill and trust generated by a reputable consumer group.

What RtV are considering is testing by an independent lab of ingredients and nicotine levels and the production of a toxicology report.  This is hoped to confirm that the product is not contaminated, contents are as described and there are thought to be no unexpected health risks from inhaling.  Another aspect of approval by RtV would be to do with packaging meeting good standards.

The most efficient way to bring reliable products to the market is to have manufacturers join the scheme and have all flavours and formulas assessed.  Any distributor of a particular product which has been assessed and found compliant would be entitled to the benefits of RtV approval.

So we want to connect and generate interest with manufacturers of eliquid.  We want them to pay us an annual fee for approval of each formula which they then could sell as approved by RtV.

There are some things I'd like further ideas on if anyone would like to share their thoughts.

  • Selling approval by RtV is going to depend on the credibility value of that approval.  How do we maximise the profile and reliability of the group and testing system to generate trust and consumer support?

  • We can't sell a scheme to manufacturers without a good idea of what it will entail and how much it will cost.  Does anyone have any expertise in testing, chemistry, or any relevant field who could offer advice on how to determine what process we need to set up for our system?  Please have a look at this thread to see some information we already have - http://www.righttovape.com/index.php?topic=264.0

  • What do you think is the best way to approach manufacturers once we have an idea of what we are proposing?  Traders who deal with and already have a relationship with particular makers might be a good introduction ... or should RtV approach the manufacturers cold and try to build a relationship from scratch?

Any constructive thoughts on any points here are greatly appreciated, thanks.
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Venuvious
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« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2009, 11:42:56 AM »
Well, now that my site is closed I guess I can comment.
I closed down for a lot of reasons, some personal, but mostly because
of the fact that ALL of my dealings with the Chinese manufacturers were
troublesome, to say the least. That's not even considering the FDA seizure
I had.
About 2 months ago I got a call from the owner of Instead Cigs.
He approached me about selling their e-liquid. But informed me I would have to
add safety caps, labels with ingredients, separate eye droppers, etc.
He then informed me they were forming an association and I should fly down
and sign up. We would then all have a private forum where we could discuss
rules, regulations, etc, and kind of be like the FDA. I thought about this
for a bit, and finally decided that the FDA was enough of a problem without
having to spend all kinds of moneys and resources on being part of some association.
Continued on next reply....
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“Through our eyes, the universe perceives itself.
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Venuvious
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« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2009, 11:56:21 AM »
So, anyway to continue...
The fact is from running my business, which did quite well, and all the research I
did for months, I have determined that the FDA will eventually hunt us all down,
regardless of how much money you spend on labels and caps. My seizure stated it was
refused entrance to the US not because of just these reasons, but because of the ingredients
themselves not being approved. Inhaled Nicotine is a NEW DRUG, plain and simple. And until it has been given FDA approval, it does not matter what is done, they will be refused at US customs until it goes through rigorious testing for a few years. End of story folks. If you would like to hear it from the horses mouth, here is his contact information:
Ronald T. Colucci, Inspector, U.S. FDA 900 US Customhouse, 2nd & Chestnut Str, Philadelphia, PA 19106
Ronald.colucci@fda.HHS.gov
My new site will be a new approach! I will NOT advertise any e-cig hardware. Only Non-Nicotine Liquids. All of which contain ONLY FDA approved ingredients. Also, they are flavorings. There will be no mention of e-smoking them. If you want to, that is your choice. I am only selling FDA approved flavorings made at an approved manufacturer, and also contain FDA food grade PG.
I actually have quite a few people who have come to realize that the reason they started this whole thing was to eventually give up the actual addiction, Nictoine, not just the cigarettes! And being someone who has came back from the world of addiction, I feel good about offering something that will free people, not keep them hooked!
Thats my 2 cents. Don't mean to sound grim, just telling it like I see it, which usually sparks a lot of flack from people protecting thier addictions. I know, I understand too. I was there myself. Thanks to these products, I no longer need the Nicotine..But still enjoy the flavor from time to time!
Peace all!
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“Through our eyes, the universe perceives itself.
Through our ears, the universe listens to its Cosmic harmonies.
We are the witness to which the universe becomes conscious of its glory and its magnificence.”
Venuvious
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« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2009, 12:15:02 PM »
Oh, sorry. One last thing.
You guys do realize what will happen if we go down this road right?
The smaller businesses will drop out do to the costs involved in doing all these things.
These costs should be on a manufacturer level, not a reseller level!
If it is put on the average reseller, well, go look at the ones who are pushing this,
they want $40.00 for 15ml of e-liquid! And that is what it will be if resellers have to do all this.
Now I am all for printing labels, ingredients,etc. But there is a limit. As a small businessman,
I should be able to have my supplier or manufacturer do this. It is up to them, like it is in this country,
to take care of these things. I am working on it with them in China. They are reluctant of course to spend money, but if all of the US resellers who get together and tell the manufacturers, look, if you want us to sell it, you need to get these things done. Chinese or other companies only need a US Agent or sponsor to apply for FDA approval and certifications. You can look it up on their website.
That is all I am saying. Otherwise, Smokingeverywhere will fight their lawsuite, and with their backing, while us small business people are spending resources and money on these things, they will get the manufacturers to do this anyway, and then if it does get approved, what next, well, you know, they sell it to Walmart! who sells the kits for $19.95, and everyone else is out of business anyway! Its an old story really! :>
« Last Edit: May 20, 2009, 12:22:44 PM by Venuvious » Logged
“Through our eyes, the universe perceives itself.
Through our ears, the universe listens to its Cosmic harmonies.
We are the witness to which the universe becomes conscious of its glory and its magnificence.”
Kate
Guest
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2009, 01:45:41 PM »
Right to Vape was thinking of trying to get manufacturers to have testing carried out rather than small retailers because of the reasons you mention.

Good luck with business, I hope it works out for you.
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Venuvious
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« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2009, 04:52:40 PM »
Thanks Kate! I appreciate the info. I am looking into talking with them once I know where this is going.
Oh, here is the exact Tracking details for my 250 Bottles of E-Liquid that got stopped by US Customs & FDA:
(Read from the bottom up)
PHILADELPHIA,
PA,  US  05/14/2009  6:02 A.M.  CUSTOMS HOLD TO PREPARE BOND PAPERWORK FOR ALTERNATE SITE CLEARANCE OR TO BE RETURNED TO SHIPPER 
 05/14/2009  6:02 A.M.  UPS IS PROCESSING SHIPMENT FOR FUTURE SUBMISSION TO THE FOOD/DRUG ADMIN AND/OR DEPT OF AG PPQ / BROKERAGE RELEASED SHIPMENT. SHIPMENT IS SUBMITTED TO CLEARING AGENCY FOR FURTHER CLEARANCE 
 05/14/2009  6:02 A.M.  CUSTOMS HOLD TO PREPARE BOND PAPERWORK FOR ALTERNATE SITE CLEARANCE OR TO BE RETURNED TO SHIPPER 
PHILADELPHIA,
PA,  US  04/15/2009  9:41 A.M.  UPS IS PROCESSING SHIPMENT FOR FUTURE SUBMISSION TO THE FOOD/DRUG ADMIN AND/OR DEPT OF AG PPQ 
 04/15/2009  9:25 A.M.  UPS IS PROCESSING SHIPMENT FOR FUTURE SUBMISSION TO THE FOOD/DRUG ADMIN AND/OR DEPT OF AG PPQ 
 04/15/2009  9:11 A.M.  SHIPMENT PENDING RELEASE FROM CLEARANCE AGENCY / BROKERAGE RELEASED SHIPMENT. SHIPMENT IS SUBMITTED TO CLEARING AGENCY FOR FURTHER CLEARANCE 
PHILADELPHIA,
PA,  US  04/11/2009  6:04 P.M.  SHIPMENT PENDING RELEASE FROM CLEARANCE AGENCY 
 04/11/2009  6:03 P.M.  SHIPMENT PENDING RELEASE FROM CLEARANCE AGENCY 
 04/11/2009  4:37 P.M.  IMPORT SCAN 
 04/11/2009  12:17 P.M.  ARRIVAL SCAN 
------------------------------------------------------------
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“Through our eyes, the universe perceives itself.
Through our ears, the universe listens to its Cosmic harmonies.
We are the witness to which the universe becomes conscious of its glory and its magnificence.”
Venuvious
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« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2009, 12:24:04 PM »
Wow! I just posted all this earlier today! Then I came accross my daily Alibaba.com ads,
and what do you know! I am looking into this. If they are serious, then this could change
everything! This is exactly what I have been telling manufacturers!
This would be a giant leap on solving all of our problems, provided they get it done:

http://yndekang.en.alibaba.com/product/233767119-201083075/Dekang_E_liquid.html?clicksrc=tl&ta-kw=E-Liquid&ta-temp=product_html_0&ta-eid=113360735&ta-info=detail_0

Check out The article halfway down the page!

About time!
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“Through our eyes, the universe perceives itself.
Through our ears, the universe listens to its Cosmic harmonies.
We are the witness to which the universe becomes conscious of its glory and its magnificence.”
Jane
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« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2009, 02:32:27 AM »
This is a 3 part problem. First, there is a 2 year wait with FDA testing to see the effects of smoking any of the "approved" bases that we smoke today. Heat changes the molecular structure, and while a product may be approved for eating and cosmetics, that doesn't mean smoking. Second, the FDA, due to "outside" interests, or their own personal "attitudes", could hold up, or ignore tests, at their discretion. Or, be very selective as to who gets a "pass" and who doesn't. Certainly, Ruyan started this process long ago. They are still not officially approved. And last, while it is very forward thinking to try to "Pre-Comply" with the law, there are plenty of nicotine sprays and gum, that are not child-proof...so why even go there? The only thing that the FDA will really be able to enforce is the import, and sale in the US. People will just import them from China, in single units. So it won't really stop, it will just put the profit back into the hands of the Chinese, where quality control is consistently sub-par, and take the profits away from the US business... who in turn actually pays the FDA's salary to begin with. It's a nasty cycle.
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Venuvious
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« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2009, 06:49:59 PM »
Thank you Jane!
Part of the reason I had problems on e-cigarette-forum is because I did not go along with the whole reseller safety cap spend more money than I got thing! LOL! One of my old customers when I was selling said the same thing, "You don't see safety caps on Nicotine Gum do ya!?"
JC has a about us page that makes it look like they have applied for FDA approval, but after researching it I realized that the name "FDA Agents" on their Certificate is just that, a third party Agent that simply files some paperwork for them!
Doesn't mean anything. They will still have to wait like everyone else.
Nice Sales Tactic though, I must admit! They say they produce their own liquid, yet someone pointed out thier company address is a rural one, (Google it you get a House!), not to mention you will never see any pics of a "Factory"
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“Through our eyes, the universe perceives itself.
Through our ears, the universe listens to its Cosmic harmonies.
We are the witness to which the universe becomes conscious of its glory and its magnificence.”
Venuvious
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« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2009, 06:54:55 PM »
You know, that is another thing, Jane! The QC lately was part of the reason I got out! The 901 Batteries floating around lately and some atomizers are Crap! I had one customer say she burned her hand reaching for her 901 in her purse because, get this, the Night Clubs music was setting off the battery and heating up the atomizer non-stop!
Another customer said he burned his thigh while walking with it in his pocket! At the end there I was doing like you and selling the cases and telling people to unassemble them and put them into the case when not using!
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“Through our eyes, the universe perceives itself.
Through our ears, the universe listens to its Cosmic harmonies.
We are the witness to which the universe becomes conscious of its glory and its magnificence.”
janefan
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« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2009, 08:43:11 PM »
Quote from: Venuvious on May 20, 2009, 11:56:21 AM
So, anyway to continue...
The fact is from running my business, which did quite well, and all the research I
did for months, I have determined that the FDA will eventually hunt us all down,
regardless of how much money you spend on labels and caps. My seizure stated it was
refused entrance to the US not because of just these reasons, but because of the ingredients
themselves not being approved. Inhaled Nicotine is a NEW DRUG, plain and simple. And until it has been given FDA approval, it does not matter what is done, they will be refused at US customs until it goes through rigorious testing for a few years. End of story folks. If you would like to hear it from the horses mouth, here is his contact information:

Inhaled nicotine is a new product? Do you really believe that is a legitimate statement?
Ronald T. Colucci, Inspector, U.S. FDA 900 US Customhouse, 2nd & Chestnut Str, Philadelphia, PA 19106
Ronald.colucci@fda.HHS.gov
My new site will be a new approach! I will NOT advertise any e-cig hardware. Only Non-Nicotine Liquids. All of which contain ONLY FDA approved ingredients. Also, they are flavorings. There will be no mention of e-smoking them. If you want to, that is your choice. I am only selling FDA approved flavorings made at an approved manufacturer, and also contain FDA food grade PG.
I actually have quite a few people who have come to realize that the reason they started this whole thing was to eventually give up the actual addiction, Nictoine, not just the cigarettes! And being someone who has came back from the world of addiction, I feel good about offering something that will free people, not keep them hooked!
Thats my 2 cents. Don't mean to sound grim, just telling it like I see it, which usually sparks a lot of flack from people protecting thier addictions. I know, I understand too. I was there myself. Thanks to these products, I no longer need the Nicotine..But still enjoy the flavor from time to time!
Peace all!
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Venuvious
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« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2009, 10:49:44 AM »
An independent study has been done last October, 2008, by non-affiliated
labs in New Zealand for the Ruyan company. Needless to say, Ruyan
is way ahead of most resellers in the FDA approval of their products.
Ruyan is also the original creator of the Electronic Cigarette, and still sells their
products for $150.00

http://www.healthnz.co.nz/RuyanCartridgeReport30-Oct-08.pdf
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“Through our eyes, the universe perceives itself.
Through our ears, the universe listens to its Cosmic harmonies.
We are the witness to which the universe becomes conscious of its glory and its magnificence.”
jigkycotty
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« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2011, 11:48:11 PM »
Keep cartridges and fluid out of reach from children Nicotine in its pure form is a poison, and can cause harm. A pastry bag is an often cone- or triangular-shaped, hand-held bag made from cloth, paper.
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